October 30, 2004 – Kate Winslet / Eminem (S30 E4)

Segments are rated on a scale of 1-5 stars

OSAMA’S ADDRESS
undecided voter Osama bin Laden (SEM) considers USA presidential election

— OH, GOD. Not another damn translator cold opening. Is it season 28 again?
— Pretty funny disclosure from Seth’s Osama Bin Laden about him being hunted down by the John Kerry campaign to register as an American voter.
— Good line about Michael Moore.
— A few dead spots for me here.
— Not sure how to react to the bit with Seth’s Osama admitting he would physically beat the hell out of Teresa Heinz-Kerry if she were his wife, which the audience actually applauds.
— SNL makes their obligatory meta reference to the preceding episode’s infamous Ashlee Simpson incident, with Seth’s Osama ranting to America about “your lip-synching pop stars.”
— Overall, surprisingly not bad for a translator cold opening.
STARS: ***


MONOLOGUE
host sings “Pick Yourself Up” & tap dances to prove she’s no lip-syncer

— Our second meta reference to the Ashlee Simpson incident.
— OH, GOD. Two episodes in a row with a song-and-dance monologue?!?
— At least there’s no typical use of SNL cast members as backup dancers, like we usually get in song-and-dance monologues.
— What a complete bore this monologue is. While I want to find a charm to this monologue, it’s not working for me AT ALL. Maybe it would work if this hadn’t come one episode after we just GOT a damn song-and-dance monologue (and frankly, the last one was a little better).
— I recall hearing that Kate would later disclose in an interview that she hated doing this monologue, which, if true, makes me like this monologue even less (if that’s possible).
STARS: *


RAP NIGHT WITH CHUBB HOTTY
obese rapper Chubb Hotty (HOS) in duet with Norah Jones (host)

— OH, GOD. The debut of a horrible short-lived Horatio Sanz recurring sketch. IIRC, this recurring sketch is going to be pure torture, and a quintessential display of season 30’s shittiness. Oh, and let me just ask: Really, SNL? You’re placing THIS as the lead-off sketch of the night? Ooh, this is gonna be a LOOOONNNNG episode, isn’t it?
— Believe it or not, this is actually a character that Horatio tried to get on the air many years earlier. Chubb Hotty was originally supposed to debut in the John Goodman episode from way back in season 24, which was Horatio’s first season. The Chubb Hotty sketch written for that episode was going to be some kind of MTV “behind the music”-type special on Chubb, but the sketch ended up not making it to the live show.
— Kinda funny to hear the VERY mixed reaction SNL’s studio audience has to Chubb Hotty’s line about the Red Sox winning the World Series. Sadly, that’s most likely going to be the most interesting part of this entire sketch.
— Awful character from Horatio, and this sketch is filled with lots of very hacky fat jokes. This is insufferable. Feels like an even worse variation of that fat acting coach sketch that Horatio did in the preceding season’s Kelly Ripa episode.
— There goes Horatio pulling a Chris Farley once again by doing a pratfall through a breakaway prop. This particular pratfall came off so desperate.
— Kenan’s a great straight man here, and has been the ONLY thing coming close to holding this terrible sketch together.
— As if this sketch hasn’t already been unwatchably hacky enough, now we get a gigantic fart from Horatio’s character. It’s official: I am in hell.
— Aaaaaand there goes Horatio’s obligatory breaking, where he cracks up at himself for no reason. You know what, SNL, just end this fucking sketch already before it finally makes me crumble to pieces.
STARS: *


MRS. DR. FRANKENSTEIN
creation (FRA) of husband-seeking Mrs. Dr. Frankenstein (host) is gay

— OH, GOD. (Has literally every single sketch tonight so far made me start off by saying “OH, GOD”?) Not only is this one of a COUNTLESS number of bad homoerotic sketches this season, but it’s our very first of an also-countless number of a specific type of homoerotic sketch this season where the entire premise is just “What would it be like if (insert whoever here, like Frankenstein, Jeff Foxworthy, a spaceship crew, etc.) acted like a gay stereotype?” This stuff on SNL was considered very hacky even back at this time in 2004/2005, but it comes off particularly groanworthy in our current age of LGBT acceptance.
— Oh, no. And now here comes a fucking musical number from Fred’s Gay Frankenstein.
— Ugh at Kate’s “I made a homo” line.
— Even the audience has stopped laughing by this point of the sketch.
— Overall, not a single laugh from me at any point during this sketch, making this the third consecutive horrible segment in tonight’s episode. We’re only 20 minutes into this episode, and it’s ALREADY destroying me.
STARS: *


TV FUNHOUSE
“Fun With Real Audio” by RBS- John McCain labors to laud George W. Bush

— Please save me from the hell that is this episode, Smigel.
— Some laughs from John McCain’s secret frustration over having to laud President Bush at a rally.
— Good little bit with McCain’s dog being so disgusted by him that he spits on him.
— A hilarious Apocalypse Now-esque turn right now.
— What was with that lame-ass hokey ending, with McCain just saying “This is tougher than I thought.” THAT was the best ending Smigel could up with?
STARS: ***


CAMPAIGN STOP
at a campaign rally, Bill Clinton (DAH) overshadows John Kerry (SEM)

— There’s almost a “So bad, it’s good” quality to Will’s attempt at a Bruce Springsteen impression.
— I love the bit with Darrell’s Bill Clinton borrowing Clarence Clemons’ sax to impress the crowd at the John Kerry rally.
— Decent part with Darrell’s Clinton repeatedly putting his trademark thumbs-up in and out of the door to demonstrate to Seth’s John Kerry how much the crowd outside the door loves him.
STARS: ***


MUSICAL PERFORMANCE
musical guest performs “Mosh”


WEEKEND UPDATE
AMP gives her takes on singers’ reactions to Ashlee Simpson’s lip-syncing

SEM is thrilled that the Red Sox won the World Series; Johnny Damon cameo

WLF belts out a song about strange Halloween memories from his youth

newly-naturalized citizen Diego (FRA) explores Democracy Plaza

Elton John (HOS) slams Ashlee Simpson with “Tiny Dancer” variant

— Our THIRD meta reference to the Ashlee Simpson incident.
— Even though I rarely like it whenever Amy does a “bit” during the Fey/Poehler era of Update, I’m actually kinda impressed by her rapid-fire string of comical impressions of various singers during her “famous singers react to the Ashlee Simpson SNL incident” joke, including some singers who Amy has played on SNL before (Avril Lavigne, Britney Spears). That’s a bit I can picture Jimmy Fallon doing back when he was on the show, given his knack for impressions of celebrities (particularly singers).
— Pretty good Update segment with Seth, keeping up the tradition of his Red Sox fan Update bits.
— I love Tina introducing Will as “resident sex symbol Will Forte”.
— Yes! We get the debut of Will doing an Update song as himself, which would go on to be a recurring thing throughout his SNL tenure, and has always been among my many favorite things Will has done on SNL.
— Will’s bizarre, hard-to-follow Halloween song is absolutely HILARIOUS. I am loving this.
— Hmm, according to a news story from Tina, Halloween masks have predicted the outcome of the last six presidential elections (as of 2004), then Tina says that this year, Bush masks have been the winner. That ended up being another accurate prediction of who would win that year’s election. Makes me wonder if Halloween masks also correctly predicted the outcome of the later 2008, 2012, and 2016 elections.
— Fred debuts a new Update character that ends up never becoming recurring, even though he kinda seemed set up to become recurring.
— Even though, on the surface, this kinda feels like a standard Hispanic Fred Armisen role, I’m really enjoying this character. Like I say about some of the stuff Fred has done in these early seasons of his, this character has a good Andy Kaufman vibe (e.g. Foreign Man), and this pre-taped format with him at Democracy Plaza is a fun use of him. This pre-tape also feels like a throwback to man-on-the-street comedy bits Fred was known for doing as various characters before he joined SNL.
— Amy’s Daylight Savings Time joke was particularly weak, even for her standards.
— WTF? Horatio’s goddamn Elton John impression in ANOTHER Update commentary, just a few episodes after he already did an Update commentary? What did I do to deserve this punishment?
— Ugh at the obligatory lame gay sex joke early on in this Elton John commentary. Yeah, we get it. Elton John is openly gay.
— Our FOURTH meta reference to the Ashlee Simpson incident.
— I remember how this Horatio-as-Elton-John “Ashlee Simpson, you’re a phony” song bothered some people at the time, who felt SNL was pushing it and going a little too far in their Ashlee-bashing tonight.
— At least Horatio’s Elton John song tonight ended up being pretty short.
— Overall, was this a season 30 Weekend Update I watched, or was it a season 7 SNL Newsbreak? This Update was JAM-PACKED and felt never-ending. Too bad the Fey/Poehler portions are still mostly tepid to me (which is yet another similarity tonight’s Update has to season 7’s SNL Newsbreaks, even if I don’t find Fey/Poehler quite as dire as the crap that Brian Doyle-Murray et al. regularly churned out at the news desk in season 7). They continue to not work for me as an Update duo.
STARS: **½


MALL
at the mall, Kaitlin has second thoughts about getting her ears pierced

— This sketch has officially become recurring.
— As I said in my review of the first installment of this sketch, I have a much bigger appreciation for these Kaitlin sketches nowadays, after utterly despising these sketches when they originally aired. Back when they originally aired, I (and I’m sure some others) couldn’t look past the annoying, shrieky, and rambly nature of Amy’s Kaitlin character. I can now enjoy these sketches for the realism, slice-of-life, and heart that both Amy’s characterization and these sketches themselves are going for.
— Kate Winslet is very believable in this type of role that I wouldn’t have been able to picture her pulling off before seeing this sketch. By the way, I’m pretty sure this is the first thing I’ve had to say about Kate in any of tonight’s sketches. And believe it or not, this ends up being her LAST sketch appearance all night. She’s not in ANY of the remaining sketches. Geez, she’s gotta be one of the most invisible hosts in then-recent memory. Word has it that she was very nervous about doing the show, which is why SNL used her so little.
— Another nice touch of amusing realism to this sketch is Maya and Rachel as jogging middle-aged women in the background all throughout this sketch.
— The interplay between Kaitlin and Rick in these sketches is always enjoyable, especially whenever she secretly discloses to him that she wants to get out of a situation she’s gotten herself into with someone else, and he tries to get her out of it. There’s something both funny and really sweet about that.
STARS: ***½


MUSICAL PERFORMANCE
musical guest & Proof [real] perform “Just Lose It”


GOODWIN WIG & TOY
Halloween-averse Glenda Goodwin has non-scary costumes

— OH, GOD. (Sorry, I just wanted to say that one more time tonight.) Those awful “Second Time Around” sketches from season 28 really soured me on this Glenda Goodwin character. At least they took her out of the “Second Time Around” setting tonight, though.
— This sketch is in a similar vein to the Attorney-At-Law sketch that the Glenda Goodwin character made her debut in, only this one has her advertising a Halloween costume shop.
— Overall, meh. This forgettable sketch just came and went with only a few mild laughs from me. Nothing noteworthy at all in this sketch. The format of this sketch worked better in the aforementioned Attorney-At-Law sketch that Goodwin debuted in.
STARS: **


ELECTORAL MAP
Tim Russert (DAH) & Tom Brokaw (CHP) consider colors for electoral map

— I liked Chris-as-Tom-Brokaw’s line when seeing the flesh tone color used for some of the states: “Now Florida looks like a semi-erect phallus.”
— This sketch is extremely boring. Tom Brokaw and Tim Russert just discussing an electoral map’s colors? How is this supposed to be enjoyable? How did a sketch with this premise even make it on the air? Kinda like the monologue earlier tonight, I want to find a charm to this premise, but nope. Not working for me in the slightest. Maybe in a much better episode, I’d appreciate this sketch’s simplistic, realistic, and dry premise more, whereas in an episode like tonight’s, this sketch is just adding to the episode’s dead feeling.
— Not sure how to feel about that non-ending.
STARS: *½


GOODNIGHTS

— At the very beginning of these goodnights, the camera catches the very end of an odd exchange Kate and Eminem have, where she’s seen asking him an offended-sounding “What?!?” before realizing she’s on the air and then begins her goodnights speech. She had a sly smirk on her face immediately after her offended-sounding “What?!?”, which makes me wonder if her seemingly offended response to whatever Eminem said to her was just playful joking around.


IMMEDIATE POST-SHOW THOUGHTS
— Not a good episode at all. Despite a few things I liked, this episode featured WAY too many flops, some of which are definitely among the worst sketches of this entire season (and considering the poor quality of this season as a whole, that’s saying something). The bad one-two punch of Chubb Hotty and Gay Frankenstein early in this episode was particularly brutal. I remember when this episode originally aired, this was the official point where I started realizing that something was going horribly wrong with this new season. Oh, and for anyone keeping count in my reviews, we’re 0-for-4 in good episodes this season so far, in my opinion. I’m pretty sure this is the first season I’ve reviewed where I went THIS far into it without liking a single episode. (The closest I can think of to this happening before is in season 22, which, while an overall good season, had a pretty rough start with its first three episodes.)


MY PERSONAL CHOICE OF “BEST OF” MOMENTS FOR THIS EPISODE, REPRESENTED WITH SCREENCAPS


HOW THIS EPISODE STACKS UP AGAINST THE PRECEDING ONE (Jude Law)
a mild step down


My full set of screencaps for this episode is here


TOMORROW
Liam Neeson

30 Replies to “October 30, 2004 – Kate Winslet / Eminem (S30 E4)”

  1. Horatio just gets worse and worse as these episodes go on. Thank god he has one more season. BTW, does Carol debut this season?

    1. Carol debuts in Colin Farrell’s episode.

      From what I’ve seen, Horatio’s last season is a decent improvement on the previous 2-3-4, so at least he doesn’t leave on a low note. Still, he really should have been much more than he was.

    2. As a side character in the “Key Party” sketch from the Colin Farrell episode. We then have a “reprieve” for the rest of the season until the Lance Armstrong episode next season.

  2. I never really understood the whole “MADtv was way better than SNL” claim (even though early MADtv is pretty great), but it makes so much sense to me now, considering the quality of seasons 28-30. At this point, I’m fully expecting the average episode rating of this season to place somewhere in the bottom three. If this shit was the alternative, no wonder MADtv seemed better (even though it was just as hacky, at this point, in my opinion). It at least had underdog status going for it, and if you were new to both of these shows and saw SNL be this bad, while knowing it had been on the air for thirty years, I can totally understand forming the opinion that it was over-hyped and geared towards a very particular audience.

    1. I agree with the MadTV comment. This sketch about the Ashlee Simpson incident is just as pointless and unnecessary as all the references in the Winslet episode.

    2. Ahh, Michael McDonald. The Phil Hartman of MadTV. If he ever auditioned for SNL, I’m glad he didn’t get it. There was much more freedom for talented performers like him there than NBC. He deserves much more respect and recognition.

  3. God-DAMN this episode needed to cool it with the Simpson bashing. I’ve never seen them go this hard on someone who was on the show the previous episode. It’s especially dumb since Eminem lipsyncs in his performance, doesn’t he? Mentioning it in Update is alright, but it’s caked all over the episode. It makes the show seem so desperate and pandering by milking the one time this season did anything of note.

    Chubb Hotty is one of the worst SNL characters of all time. It feels like a bit someone would come with as a satire of shitty SNL characters. When the farts started my brain literally froze.

    1. He does lipsync- at one point during “Just Lose It”, you can see him licking his lips as the vocals play.

  4. For a “recent” host, that’s a shockingly invisible performance by Kate Winslet, but I suppose if she was nervous, that’s understandable (and it’s not like her material helped).

    The rocky season isn’t helped by some questionable hosting choices. None of these hosts are bad (actually, Affleck and Latifah are really good, material aside)–but we enter a stretch where a number of them (Jude Law, Kate Winslet, Liam Neeson, Colin Farrell, Robert De Niro, among them) did not have much experience in live sketch comedy. I’m certain in better seasons a lot of them could turn in fine work, but this wasn’t a top season. It’s odd that for a season 30, the show avoided a lot of reliable recurring hosts (like Baldwin, Walken, or Goodman) or just veteran comedy hands.

  5. I haven’t seen this episode, and frankly, I’m not in a huge rush to do so, but I remember a ton of hype at the time on some political blogs because Eminem was pushing a vote drive and some were sure that his appearing on SNL would help Kerry win. Yeah…

    I thought Kate was an odd choice for a host. Based on the anecdotes of her struggles, I guess she really did turn out to be an odd choice. The early ’00s had a lot of questionable choices in hosts, sadly.

  6. To answer Brady’s question, yes, in the Colin Farrell episode.

    I gave this episode 3 1/2 out of 5 on the Stu-dometer (ugh) and in hindsight that was way too generous. It’s obvious from the get-go that Kate didn’t know what she signed up for, and her stage fright is palpable. The election content in this episode is the strongest of Year 30, which is barely a compliment. I didn’t mind Chubb Hotty and Mrs. Dr. Frankenstein did little for me, but neither have aged well. On the bright side, this was probably the strongest Fey-Poehler Update thus far.

  7. In the context of NBC’s 2004-05 season, I see why SNL trades off the Simpson incident. NBC relies to some point on aging shows, green-lights spinoffs that underwhelm ratings-wise (Law and Order: Trial By Jury, Medical Investigation, Joey), launches shows that become the butt of jokes (Father of the Pride, LAX, Joey), and suffers the collapse of Must See TV Thursday thanks to NBC’s micro-management. The Simpson incident is one of the few times in the fall of 2004 where schadenfreude on NBC doesn’t involve the network’s programming decisions, and instead of making a good episode to capitalize, SNL lets Sanz pull out Out-of-Shape Wigger From 1998. Brilliant. Gosh, I can’t understand HOW NBC falls to fourth place this season.

    1. *ignore Medical Investigation as that’s not a spinoff. I guess one can swap in Most Outrageous Moments as that grew out of the Most Outrageous Game Show Moments specials, but…yeah, THAT’S one of the few new shows passing NBC renewal bar, blooper-fueled time-slot spackle.

  8. I remember Kate being interviewed on the Tonight Show shortly after this aired, and she said she was so nervous that a bunch of stuff with her had to be cut, and they adjusted the live show to have a minimal amount of stuff with her in it by her request, so maybe there were better sketches in dress that could have made this show better than it was. I remember thinking that this and the Jason Bateman episodes were the worst of the season, and I’ve never watched anything from those shows again since they first aired.

    1. Possibly! I think there was an added sense of pressure because of it that made her very nervous. She is still an amazing actress ❤️

  9. So I guess it all comes down to this: What’s worse for a season of SNL, not being funny or not being funny AND being offensive/aging poorly? I can see why this season is notorious in these early episodes but the fact that it’s never mentioned along with seasons 6, 11, and 20 makes me think it has to get at least somewhat better, right?

    1. I think everything you need to know about the internal perception of the 04-05 season is best explained in the bloodbath following the 05-06 season. I don’t think Lorne does drastic overhauls anymore, he finds the replacements first, establishes them and only THEN wields the ax. The influx of Sudeikis, Hader, Samberg and Wiig allowed them to jettison Fey, Dratch, Parnell, Sanz and Mitchell, while also removing Meyers from sketches. I know they weren’t all firings, but the “budget cuts” really did atone from the drastic post-Ferrell drop off.

      Anyway, more to your point, even the best of SNL ages poorly, it’s part of the show’s DNA. Season 30 is built like Season 20 SNL in that it’s made up of a bunch of tired old hands, but the outcome is more like 85-86, where the show just can’t seem to rise to the occasion. 94-95 had hits, 85-86 really didn’t and neither does 04-05.

    2. Tina was leaving anyway as she was starting 30 Rock. For a while I thought Rachel was fired but I think she also willingly left as she thought she would have a major role in 30 Rock.

      I do wonder about whether anyone at the show really felt these years were poor. The ratings weren’t good, but I’m sure Lorne wouldn’t feel that was down to quality, as apparently the ratings in the late ’80s weren’t seen as great either (isn’t that one of the reasons he booked Andrew Dice Clay). Then that happened again in 2015 when the ratings weren’t great, even if the show wasn’t seen as bad, leading to Trump’s booking.

      I find this era to be pretty much ass, but then I still see people who say these years couldn’t be bad because they had Maya, Jimmy, Amy, Tina, etc.

      I think one of the problems for SNL is that in the last few decades, the show has become permanently cocooned in “It’s been terrible since _____/it’s never really going to be very good again/it’s the face of capitalist evil overlords/it’s the face of the liberal agenda” and usually the only time something breaks that cocoon is political material or some kind of huge controversy. The actual quality of the show, and the actual casts (outside of a few “stars” people will insist the show can’t survive without, like Kristen Wiig or Kate McKinnon, or Kenan Thompson to a degree), has become more and more irrelevant outside of a hardcore fan base. This isn’t helped by the never-ending cameo parade.

      Lorne does seem to have become much more reticent about firings, which is probably one of the reasons that Taran Killam and Jay Pharoah being fired got so much press. However, I’m not sure how the bloated cast of the last decade (which must be a record for such a long period of time without a cull) can last at this point – surely with the hit the industry took from COVID, there will be major budget cuts up and down NBC.

      As for whether seasons 6, 11 or 20 are worse than seasons 31 – for me, the Tina Fey era of SNL has all the worst of those periods in terms of offensive humor (and in some ways is even MORE dated than some of those seasons, due to the doubling down on racism and homophobia and the heavy pop culture material), without most of the positives. I can’t and won’t defend a lot of stuff in SNL’s first 20 seasons, but for me the best of the show existed from 75-95 and it’s never really been quite the same since then, even if there are still many elements I have enjoyed.

    3. I wonder if Tina survives the 05-06 purge if 30 Rock doesn’t happen? My guess is that Lorne admired and respected her too much that she would have stayed even if it was obvious the show needed a change at head writer

  10. Of SNL’s “bad” seasons/eras:

    -I think s6 is the worst, but it has the most extenuating circumstances–new cast, new producer, and above all, a feeling of “sinking ship” that totally sends the show reeling down the stretch. It has more high points than people realize and I respect some of the efforts of correcting the problems.

    -I actually like a good deal of s11–it’s certainly not perfect and it really skids down the stretch, but a number of the cast members are underrated and about a third of it is stuff that gets reprised again in s12.

    -s20 and s30 are actually sort of eerily similar–a lot of weak hosts, lazy writing, and above all, a lack of discipline among the cast members. I don’t think s30 has the “sinking ship” feel of the other bad seasons, but maybe that’s a bad thing as it lets the show just sort of merrily plod along. I still think s20 is worse, but you get the sense that s30 hasn’t even earned its lack of discipline–both are bad, but it’s one thing for Farley or Sandler to be totally unprofessional…yet Horatio Sanz???

  11. Lorne doesn’t have to worry about “blowing it up” because his job is more secure than it’s ever been.

  12. You’re trippin’ biggity-biggity-balls, my friend. This was the best episode of 2004-05, and one of the best SNL episodes EVER. Period.

  13. The only thing I laughed at in the Chub Hotty bit was when the audience booed him for mentioning the Red Sox won the World Series. I don’t know if that was scripted or not, but I just love it when the SNL audience boos something.

  14. In 2012, Jim Downey had an event with Bill Murray where he planned to show a dress cut of John Kerry trying to end prenuptial agreements. He said the audience didn’t get it so that’s why it was cut.

    No real idea of when in 2004 this aired, but as this was probably one of the last possible dates I’ll just put the article here.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/2012/03/24/james-downey-saturday-night-live-veteran-writer-mines-politics-for-comedy/Az4gqFY5TreblzjFEtbaWO/story.html

    1. I noticed this episode isn’t available on any streaming services. I used to think that was NBC’s way of apologizing to Ashlee Simpson for how much they bring up the incident. It does come off a bit mean spirited on rewatch. I’m not a fan but I heard her career really took a nosedive after the incident. That and they must feel partially responsible since it happened on their show. But if that was the case why not just edit those parts out, they’ve done it before.

      Looking back at it now we can all agree that what happened was an overreaction and that it got WAY TOO MUCH media coverage. Unfortunately it was just too easy fun of her.

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